This is where the hate towards 3 Waters is really coming from – you are being manipulated again sleepy hobbits

By
Martyn Bradbury
-
108
6418

Finally, the truth about why the 3 Waters legislation has become so toxic has been revealed…

Three Waters: Officials warn water bills could increase ‘significantly’ without regulation

The statement hints at a looming conflict between big business and Government.

The legislation will automatically cancel the pricing and charging provisions of contracts currently in place between councils and businesses for commercial use within five years of the new water entities coming into force.

Officials believe these large commercial users have been given cheap access to water at the expense of households. As the water entities look at ways of sending households separate water bills, the Government wants household water users to be insulated from price hikes, at the expense of commercial water users.

Overall, the legislation paves the way for “cost-based pricing” so that the fees households and businesses pay for water services reflects the cost of delivering those services.

“It is particularly important that businesses which use larger quantities of water face cost-based pricing, to incentivise businesses to use water efficiently.

“We are concerned some territorial authorities may have offered large commercial water users “sweetheart deals” with low water prices as a hidden subsidy to locate in their district,” officials warn.

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…that’s right, Commercial players who have abused low water charging for decades will finally be forced to pay their true cost and that is what is fuelling and funding the toxic malaise of 3 Waters.

The connection between corporate farmers, the feral Groundswell and right wing spin drs who have conspired to undermine 3 Waters are doing so because this has ultimately always been about cost and the way corporate farming escapes the true price of the water they take and pollute!

 

 

 

Watching how this has been twisted into a race war by those who don’t want to pay for their pollution is as sad as the emotional manipulation driving the Ram Raiders debate thanks to crime porn clickbait from a ratings chasing Corporate Media.

You have been played over co-governance when the drivers of this movement were always corporate farming profit margin based masquerading as democratic concern.

When Elizabeth Rata coined the phrase ‘Ethno-Nationalist State‘ to describe attempts to share power with Māori as promised by the Treaty, every right winger wanting to be racist found glee in the shielding of their bigotry by the pretence of intellectualism.

What is most hilarious about Rata’s claims of Ethno-Nationalist State is that she is 100% right, it’s just that she’s right in a way she doesn’t want to admit to, which is NZ is an Ethno-Nationalist State, it’s just a White Ethno-Nationalist State!

Our systems of power and control are all white, our dominant culture is white, our benefitting from colonialism is white, our purposeful laws aimed at taking more Māori land were white, our confiscations are white, our dominant narrative is white.

So sure, NZ is an Ethno-Nationalist State, but for white people!

Any attempt to rebalance the damage caused by taking 90% of Māori land in less than a century and any attempt to live up to the promise of the Treaty must be denigrated and appallingly decried as apartheid.

The two pillars of NZ economic success is exploiting migrant labour to fuel our low wage economy (thanks to 30 years of State sponsored deunionisation) and stealing Māori land while NEVER paying the full price of that theft back!

NEVER! NEVER! NEVER!

We get furious at even the mention of the fact that the reparations to date have been a mere pittance of the actual true value of the confiscation, not even mentioning the cost of that confiscation over generations!

We are a shallow juvenile settler country with all the  cultural maturity of a can of day old coke, we are a low horizon people who lash out at others who see stars. Our imaginations are glued to cow udders, rugby and cars. To attempt a debate about identity when so many micro aggression trigger snowflakes are screaming is a feat beneath our collective dignity.

Co-Governance is the EXACT model that National and ACT developed, to now decry it because post covid stress has exacerbated economic anxieties isn’t leadership, it’s gutless capitulation to the lesser angels of our nature. What I find most hilarious is those screaming that Māori are taking over can’t name 3 councillors on their own local council.

3 Waters was an attempt to serve two maters, the Waitangi Tribunal ruling into water ownership triggered by Key selling 49% of the hydro assetsand the need to find a way for Local Councils to fund water infrastructure. The way it has been manufactured into a racial smear on Nanaia Mahuta and her family DESPITE DECLARING ALL CONFLICTS OF INTEREST is proof positive that the angry and confused trump any attempt at rational debate.

What its most egregious is how these small attempts at creating basic consultation between the dominant culture and the indigenous culture they signed a Treaty with is now portrayed as a giant attack on the values of Democracy!

The way the right have framed 3 Waters as an attack on democracy is a masterclass of propaganda that would make your average Qanon Fear grifter blush.

The reason we have a vast under investment in water infrastructure is because Local Government won’t upgrade a system put under immense stress by Central Government’s open door immigration policy and low wage economy addiction.

Suburban home owners are fine with this mass immigration policy and infrastructure gridlock because it pushes up the untaxed house valuations they have gotten used to gaining year in and year out.

Neither Central Government nor Local Government want to have an honest discussion with voters about higher water rates and higher taxes.

Someone has to come up with the $150billion over the next 30 years to keep up with the expected population growth from the mass immigration policies of both Labour and National.

20% of our water is lost between the tap and its source!

Christ we can’t even debate taxing the fucking banks windfall taxes without the Right clutching their pearls and fainting on behalf of the free market.

3 Waters isn’t about Māori taking over the fucking water, it’s about Local and Central Government refusing to pay for the mass immigration policies that are enriching the property speculating middle classes.

The way this refusal to debate the cost of mass immigration policies and the political power of middle class property speculators has been twisted into a racist debate about co-governance and Māori ethno nationalism is gasp inducing in its dog whistling audacity.

We are too brittle a people for the challenges in front of us.

The issue of 27 000 on emergency housing wait lists, 200 000 kids in poverty and a million being spent daily to kettle beneficiaries into unsafe motels are still here begging to be solved. Our inequality, our damaging mental illness crisis, the underfunded health system and education systems  – all these things are demanding attention from Labour and if the price to advance those is to cut off 3 Waters and co-governance progress, then cut them off!

A National ACT Government will be the most extreme right wing Government this country has seen since Roger Douglas, Labour can not afford to lose if those policy platforms have become welded to a toxic race debate that the Ethno-Nationalist Right are winning.

3 Waters was a instrument to solve the question of Māori interests in water WHILE providing debt stretched Local Councils a funding mechanism to upgrade water infrastructure WHILE pushing that cost onto the commercial users who have been abusing the lax regulation and true cost of water use for fucking decades!

Instead, all we get is ‘da Māaaaaaaaaaaaaoris are getting too much’ bargain basement fuckwittery as a debate.

Look you fucking clowns, the climate is super charging and becoming a God damned inferno! We are past the point of stopping the climate omnicide and the speed of climate change damage will force our hand whether you are fucking quibbling about the Māori Iwiocracy or not!

The corporate interests of polluters and abusers of the current lax regulation is what is funding and driving this debate and you are all being manipulated into seeing it as a race issue when it’s a corporates trying-to-slip-out-of-paying issue using Race as the smokescreen.

I’m not saying Mahuta shouldn’t have done things at a higher standard than the Cabinet Manual states, I’m not saying that she is blameless for the entrenchment nonsense and I’m not defending the genuine issues around privatisation which I have constantly voiced!

B-U-T these are secondary issues, the main issue has been about corporate users of water avoiding that cost.

Whether those corporate polluters interests like it or not, climate change will ensure that cost is paid by us all!

We are in denial about how we used fake growth from mass immigration and intensive dairying on the water infrastructure of our nation.

We chose instead to make this a debate about race so that stagnation ensures and those fucking corporates get away with stealing and polluting the water!!!!

AGAIN!!!!!

Rapid adaptation in the face of severe global warming is our only option left and if 3 Waters gets turned around today, it simply means it will be Nationalisation of the entire water system tomorrow because the State will have no option then in the teeth of the global warming fire to finally make corporate polluters pay the true cost of the water they are polluting.

I said right at the start of 3 Waters that the Government simply should have Nationalised the entire water system under the Public Works Act and gotten on with it.

If it’s not 3 Waters today, it will be All Waters tomorrow.

You fucking clowns.

You are so easy to manipulate.

 

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108 COMMENTS

  1. The only clowns are the ones who can’t see that voters will never accept ceding control of public assets to a minority of Iwi elite.

    • well jace will flogging those assets to foreign interests(which is trhe medium term plan) suit you better jase….after all the french or canadians aren’t ‘iwi’

      • Not a racist at all, just say it as I see it, and this bill smacks of elitism and will do nothing for the downtrodden. I would have the exact same concerns if we were signing away control of public water assets to any other elite group on the basis of ethnicity (including pakeha). But hey, I’m more than happy for you to betray your own lack of intellectual rigour by resorting to this type of ‘schoolyard name calling’ and identity politicking – even if it is becoming wearisome.

          • Nah downtick from me Gags but the foreign ownership bogey man is a total straw-man. We can keep infrastructure in NZ hands without giving control of it to minority elites. It is not “either Maori control or foreign control” – let’s keep in New Zealand control, where all New Zealanders have an equal say. For your amusement have a look at Ryan Bridge vs the PM on “entrenchment” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzhc7mQVr3U

    • You say these “voters will never accept ceding control of public assets to a minority” – yet many of these Groinswell/TaxAvoidersUnion types are ACT or Nat voters, i.e. happy to support parties who’s very political philosophy are about selling public assets to minority interests!!

      Proves most ACT/NAt have little to no clue what they’re voting for and confirms Martyn’s thesis.

  2. So what this was in fact about was land confiscations, white dominant culture, white colonialism and rebalance for the damage caused to Maori by taking 90% of their land by whitey.

    Well why didn’t the Prime Minister and her ministerial entourage just come out and say that in the first place? You know, just be honest and up front?

    Here we were being led to think it was about water infrastructure and clean water! And some privatisation thingy no one was talking about until late 5 Waters law making stage starting boiling over because no one from Labour wanted to be honest about it.

    I missed the usual back slapping celebrations in parliament when it passed into law and endless media interviews by the PM and relevant minister on this fabulous new legislation. Now why would that be?

    At least you are honest about it’s real purpose. Thank you because someone had to be!

    • Adern wouldn’t recognise the truth if it bit her on the arse.
      She is too busy being kind by calling people arrogant pricks.

      • he is an arrogent prick it was under her breath and didn’t know it was hot..it’s not like she was at the dispatch box and proclaimed to the entire house in a ringing voice…’the right dishonourable member is an arrogant prick’

      • @jays
        She didn’t call ‘people’ arrogant pricks you crafty little Machiavellian ( cunning, scheming, and unscrupulous, especially in politics. “a whole range of outrageous Machiavellian manoeuvres”) Confederate. ( noun. a person, group, nation, etc., united with others in a confederacy; an ally. an accomplice, especially in a mischievous or criminal act. ) She called seymour an arrogant prick. I think she was incorrect in saying that. I think he’s more a horrible little cunt.

    • thoughtful people do not see it that way…racists would latch onto those views like leech however. Xray, I know you’re not a racist…but racists will think you are and agree with you here.

  3. “.. share power with Māori as promised by the Treaty”

    No, power sharing was never mentioned in the ToW. Nor were Principles Partnerships or Co governance/government.

    Which part of “..the Rights & Privileges of British subjects” don’t you understand ?

  4. The irony of course is that the political manipulation of covid cult by the left was on a far grander scale and dwarfs any manipulation by the right on 3 waters.

  5. If this 3 Waters had been presented in the 1st year of Jacinda’s reign the pixie dust would have blinded people to the truth and it would have had a free ride . Now the gloss is wearing off the lies and the hidden agendas are being exposed and the voters are bitting back
    .The arrogance showed by Mahuta and Jacinda are not winning any one over and this will be one of the catalyst to their defeat at the next election

    • Trevor all you do is slag off the government just like your NACT masters. However just like your NACT masters you have absolutely no idea what to do instead. As for your NACT masters repealing every thing in sight who is going to pay for the undoing, how much is it going to cost ( don’t forget the money already spent on these policies). I wont hold my breath.

  6. I’ve had my pullover on most of this “summer”. Friends in the UK were delayed 2 days coming to NZ because of snow. Ice has come early to Scandinavia.
    Europe is freezing at the moment, because…. global warming

    Would somebody pleeeese think of the children

    • I’m wondering what will happen after agriculture is shut down. Tourists are sick of the place – highly overrated IMHO – and the tech sector could be replaced by offshore companies in India.
      So what’s left?

      Nothing other than a third world sh*thole at the arse end of the planet .

    • The hatred in NZ is not just 3 Waters. It is a combination of govt overreach during CV-19, turning people on each other, endless gaslighting by the media, etc.
      I would guess that in 5-10 years time NZ will be a cesspit of violence and terrorism.

      No one will want to visit, and those able to will leave, forever.
      Can’t say I’ll be sad to see the back of this sh*thole.

      • It’s not unique to NZ. The entire planet is experiencing these same problems, including the UK (actually the UK is experiencing a lot of major issues). It’s part of the new cycle. In NZ, we’ve moved on now from the covid divide. I understand there is still pain there to be worked through for some. By all means leave NZ whenever you like, with haste.

      • Andy some of us are very attached to what you apparently regard as a sh*thole country. NZ remains a country of wondrous beauty and considerable achievements, in spite of 50 years of poor government. If you don’t know how to love this country, feel free to try living somewhere else.

        • Well said Pope. I am proud to be a Kiwi, I am ashamed of our successive governments, but we are not unique in that regard. As they say – you get what you vote for – or in the case of 3 waters, you get what you didn’t vote for.

    • andy you are not that dumb…it’s not a particular event it’s the severity and increasing frequency of these events….don’t pretend to be thicker than you are andy.

  7. Tukoroirangi Morgan has been appointed to lead the northern Three Waters iwi body.

    And he has already warned that Auckland taking more and more water from the Waikato River is not sustainable.

    W0w what a proclamation from our treaty partner. The Tongariro power scheme built in.the 1970s diverted an extra 2500 million litres of water per day down the Waikato river. Auckland has a consent to take 300 millions/l/day ,20 km before it flows into the Tasman sea
    3 waters is sunk in treaty quagmire if we are going to act on Maori knowledge flowing from Tuko’s mouth. And we can’t get rid of him , the new form of Maori democracy

    • And the Tongariro power scheme mainly built with Italian immigrant labour. Where to they fit into co governance.

  8. What scares me about three waters is the cost to users. The new entities are going to take hundreds of millions to set up – buy new vehicles, layers of bureaucracy and managers with eye watering salaries. The cost of improving the water infrastructure will be in the billions. All of this will need to be borrowed.
    Water users (all of us) will pay for all of this including a large return to investors and a significant dividend to iwi. The cost could be something like 100 + per week, per household. This will result in worsening inequality.
    We’ve got it right with the system we’ve got now. No one owns the water and communities own their own water infrastructure. The only bit missing is a contestable fund for councils who are struggling.

    • You clearly have no idea if you think the system we have now is working. The country’s water infrastructure is fucked but keep telling yourself it’s not, with your head buried in the sand. That same sand is becoming wetter by the minute. Some on this site fail to grasp the reality of our broken infrastructure and are naive enough to think local government has the funds to fix.

      • Well said, MHK! Neil and his like are simply and lazily acting irresponsibly and continue ‘kicking the can down the road’ – as the Nats and their allies in Councils have been doing for decades. Their answer? No problem here, just move on…. Yeah, right!!

      • Not completely true Mike. Hastings and Havelock North councils, have repaired and replaced the infrastructure that caused their polluted water supplies that got this whole issue started. They did it themselves without the government and three waters. Sure some councils will need help, so fund them. You don’t need an asset grabbing co governing government to do that. No there is a way bigger agenda here.

      • Mike the ONLY reason people are afraid of 3 waters is the truth that our water infrastructure is failing big time. Look at Auckland beaches, look at the salaries for watercare. Look at Wellington sewers constantly blowing up. Look at the no drink notices all over NZ, is this a sign of our current system working. The kicker is that WE STILL PAY INCREASING RATES FOR THESE FAILURES. FUNNY THAT

    • But but Jacinda said our rates will sky rocket if we don’t go with 3 Waters??

      I think she said by $1800 a year…I wonder if Baker did the estimate?

  9. A white ethno-state huh? And how could we have developed NZ from 1840 as anything else? Modern/young NZers do not understand how things were and how they have changed. They just wish we are something we are not. They are living a fantasy about our development from landing in a raw land and from scratch, developing it into a high tech nation. Some people need to read the original texts from our country’s records. Such as Ian Wishart’s “Our Stories” which has contemporary reports over the decades of our development. It’s not sanitised and pretty real.
    As a mixed, bi-cultural people no-one wants apartheid thank you. We want to live in harmony and share our fortunes. Not have secretive, divisive, exploitative, treasonous politicians wrecking our beautiful but soon-to-be-fucked country. We will not stand for it.

    • Indeed Magit. Hopefully our collective histories will be taught better in schools soon. We are an ignorant bunch on the whole. Who really has time to read books these days? It’s all work work work kids kids kids for nothing much at the end (forget about ever having the security of owning a home to live in). But I digress

    • Magit the problem lies with many immigrants to this country not accepting diversity. They come from different countries and different economic backgrounds. They are in the country for 5 mins and have an opinion on the treaty of Waitangi without any real knowledge.

  10. I think a lot of NZders are thick, illiterate and are suckers for a headline.

    What’s the point of owning something that you can’t afford to keep and pay for?

    You know, like say…a house! Those suckers who went out and bought a house in the Peak of the housing market! They’re all moaning now with the falling value of their house and rising mortgage that they can’t afford! They are going to have to SELL or the bank will force a mortgagee sale on to them soon if they can’t afford to pay the mortgage!

    So, Auckland Council has $11.5b of debt(mortgage). It can’t afford to borrow anymore. It pretty much has a fixed income,who are the ratepayers.
    There’s no enough ‘fat’ to trim unless the mayor and councilors have a ‘FIRESALE’ where everything must go!

    So if they can’t afford to fix up the Water Infrastructure then they need to find the money from somewhere else to fix it up if they don’t want to sell any of the Water assets ay??

    So you put in place a pliable board who has the powers and authority to sell contracts to providers of water services up to 35 years!

    There is no company in NZ that can cover the liabilities of between $185b up to $485b to fix up the infrastructure. It will go to a multi national company and then they’ll sub contract out all the work to mostly NZ companies.

    Who could these multinational companies be?
    Well Blackrock Inc and Blackstone Inc are already imbedded in the NZSuperfund! Throw in a couple of vulture capitalist and hey presto! We’re fuck’d! On the hook! In a contract that we can’t refuse to pay or get out of because the CTPPA international rules still apply when it comes to the NZ government is on the hook to pay up!

    So fuck off with the red hearing bs. Its fuckn boring!

    • Absolutely Tane. Love the moaners complaining about interest rates when anyone with half a brain could see what an idiotic time to buy was at the peak of housing prices. Unless you are buying for life of course the you’re in it for the long haul.

    • 100% Tane. Although I saw in the amendments that the 35 year contract term has been downgraded to 15. But what you say is spot on the money and I am sick of people bitching on the left or the right about one aspect or another.

      Effectively this will privatise the water in an opaque way and everyday NZers will pay for Multi nats shareholders, profits on NZ firms contracted to do the work, potentially Iwi levies or some kind of click your ticket return on the water (Not sure that’s unclear), the massive bureaucracies behind this, the huge cost of consultation, the actual cost of mana o te wai (as shown in the amendments) and the actual cost of consultation with Iwi (also in the amendments) and potential costs of delays and restrictions via Mana O Te Wai and I am sure there is more in there. But by all means people, keep fighting with your left or right wing dogma and ignore the elephant in the room!

      Although Tane, I disagree with you on housing. The fundamental issue is that everyone needs to have a house to live in. The State havent been doing their job of ensuring low incoming housing for those that need it and that has caused rents and property prices to rise. Imagine what would happen to house prices, if state housing was cheap and available to 8% of the population? I imagine it would take care of the wealth transfer device known as the Winz accommodation supplement as well. There would be more affordable houses available for middle income NZers and everyone could get on with the business of building a life.

    • PS: I forgot to mention all the lovely interest we will pay on all the money we will borrow starting with the multiple hundred millions we will pay from Day 1 for the $2 million? council bribe money.

    • Councils could start by selling the golf courses and working out where the money went for the massive water care fees everyone has been paying for when they changed to the COO structure.

      There is no trust in these structural changes as the government has failed again and again to restructure for the better and make assets more affordable or better run when restructuring into all these political entities.

      Labour failed on COO and SOE already. Now co-governance with the same ideology and fringe people behind them will benefit while everyone else loses.

      Want water to be better managed, change the laws not the structure. When the Greens give the green light to let Chinese water bottlers get more water to export, they are the problem!!!!

  11. Very well described Martyn–close to Column of the Year–given the strands you wove together.

    A propaganda victory for the right no doubt, who twisted the narrative of profiteering Farmers, Corporates and right wing local Govt. Councillors into a democracy issue. Hello…so many district Councils 3 Waters infrastructure are in a parlous state. In Kaitaia Councillors brick themselves every time there is a big rain event, and the water supply is regularly undrinkable, but hey until recently we have had good ’ol boy Natzo councillors for years eh…nothing to see here was John Carter’s mantra.

    But, that h20 has to keep flowing to the sheep shaggers and horticulturists regardless. A clue was all the Stop 3 waters signs on rural properties NOT hooked up to any 3 waters services!

    Unfortunately NZ Labour’s neo Blairism means they find it incredibly difficult to tackle business head on and explain things in a way that this post managed in a few paragraphs.

    How many commenters above, terrified of Māori influence are under 50 it would be interesting to know.

    • Under 50 and not afraid of Maori influence. Whats missing in three waters is the ability for any other group to have a say in how our water infrastructure is managed. The power given to maoridom is disproportionate and unreasonable as it stands. The entire governance structure is focused on iwi – such as the area boundaries that follow tribal boundaries. Yes mana whenua should be at the table but not be the only ones there…
      And a dividend needs to be taken off the table as this will only drive inequality. Ngai Tahu for example are worth 1.7 billion and are thriving. They are also one of the main drivers of Three Waters.
      As a whole we have a really good system, you turn on the tap, the water is free for all. Think for a second what happens when we start to charge businesses for water – who who pay? The consumer in the super market. Three waters is the wrong answer.

      • Neil, we don’t get a say in how our water is managed now. 3 waters is an absolute improvement. User pays so cough up beef and dairy farmers and other commercial polluters and ticket clippers!

    • How many commenters above are genuinely concerned about water affordability and ‘pseudo privatisation’. Read the details of the bill and see if that just might be a very pressing concern for many of us.

      • Sinic it will be you who’s coughing up. When you buy anything from tomatoes to pork, water is part of the growing process. Surely this will just drive the cost of living up…

        • How so Neil? I grow my own tomatoes and don’t eat pork. If the prices for meat and veg continue to skyrocket I will continue to curb my eating choices and grow more of my own produce. I’m not a price taker at the supermarket and neither should anyone else be. I vote with my wallet on such matters. Others do also. 3 waters has nothing to do with the cost of living, other than making commercial parties pay for their consumption and pollution, at the same prices as households do. They may choose to pass on costs, and we can choose to shop elsewhere and grow our own food, for example. Unviable farms and businesses will fail without sufficient custom if their price expectations are unrealistic. And the world will keep on turning.

  12. Thank you for spelling it out – finally! There are big changes coming, globally, for the agriculture sector. Specifically around efficient use of resources – water and land – as well as waste management and environment protection. The Dutch government have recently mandated the closure of 3000 farms due to low quality and out dated farming practices.

    • Let’s hope those big changes still enable sufficient food to be produced at a price that even the poorest amongst us can pay – or should we all starve instead…..

    • “due to low quality and out dated farming practices.”

      That would be the same Netherlands that is so inefficient that they are the world’s second largest agricultural producer despite a relatively small country with a very high population density with doubled yields on the same amount of fertilizer since the 1960s? Indeed dutch farmers are so out of date, they were among those chosen to bring Afghan farmers up to date with modern practices during the US occupation.

      The main rationale for closing down Dutch farms is the levels of nitrogen in and therefore preservation of, natural spaces (one waits to see is these natural spaces and closed farms will be preserved by turning them into much needed housing). Interestingly the nitrogen output going into Dutch soil has been in decline for about 30 years due to increased efficiency.

      However take at face value that the nitrogen levels are far too high and must be reduced far more quickly. There are two obvious consequences.

      First that agricultural production will transfer somewhere else, likely to farmers who are less efficient and countries with less strict legislation.

      The second and far more serious is that we are heading into global food shortages (and further food price inflation) due to the war in Ukraine, disrupting energy supplies which worsens existing disruption of food and fertiliser production and shipping. (The high price of natural gas means most of European nitrogen based fertiliser manufacture has already stopped along with China banning some fertiliser exports). Compound this with a geopolitical reshuffle and looming debt crisis that will dwarf 2008.

      In such a period of global instability, food insecurity and famine are a given. Therefore taking thousands of farms offline at this moment in a country that is highly productive is akin to Germany taking Nuclear power plants offline (and now burning more coal, more lignite while facing blackouts and industrial decline) or perhaps NZ closing refineries.

      Be extremely cautious of getting rid of or disrupting old energy and food production systems till you have something to replace them with. The average person will cut down the forest for firewood before they freeze and butcher the wildlife before they starve. Is that the environmental outcome we are looking for?

        • Thank you for the details which I was not aware of – my understanding is that a court decision in the Netherlands halted housing and infrastructure projects due to the countries over all emissions output and the response was to shut down farms with high emissions. Regulation like this will favor and promote greater efficiency which (should) lead to higher productivity and output in the medium and long term.
          It is likely that high population density and land constraints are motivating the Dutch to improve their farming practices even more then they have already. Good for them – NZ farmers may need to up their game to compete in the same markets.

          • The Dutch policies are not motivated by desire to further improve already effective farming practices. It is the ‘politics’ of contemporary environmentalism which I suspect will completely backfire and even undermine environmental objectives. The German energy sector and downstream effects are the clearest example of this to date.

            I hope you are right about medium to long term but I fear it’s the next few years we need to worry about.

            Energy and food production should not be taken offline in the face of a completely foreseeable confluence of major factors that are and will severely disrupt global food and energy production and distribution in the short term.

  13. On the button, Martyn.
    But we will see the exact opposite.
    It will be a broad based tax and we all know who will suffer most.

  14. Three Waters has nothing to do with irrigation schemes. At least that is what the government says. So Three Waters is not about Groundswell or farming. It is about water distributed by local authorities for drinking, household, commercial and industrial use. If farming and Groundswell are upset then it must because they fear that their irrigation schemes are next in line for co-governance. Is the government and Iwi encouraging that fear?

    Perhaps they are. If they follow your advice, that is, “solving the question of Maori interests”, then all waters will be subject to a co-governance regime with licensing and fees paid for water use. Farmers won’t be be just paying for the infrastructure, they will be paying for the actual water, since it is apparent you think water (or 50% of it) should be owned by iwi. Next in line will be the hydroelectric stations. With a consequential up to 50% or more increase in electricity costs.

    Is it surprising that this issue has ignited public concern as the broader implications sink in?

    • “If farming and Groundswell are upset then it must because they fear that their irrigation schemes are next in line for co-governance.”

      Fear…

      F alse
      E vidence
      A ppearing
      R eal

      Lots of statements Wayne, little concrete evidence to support.

  18. Government don’t need three waters to stop underpricing of water and sales by councils, they just need to change the laws to stop water being given away or used frivolously and sold.

    aka it didn’t seem to be an issue for Government to change the information law over fears councils may be threatening national security and defence with LGOIMA.

    Funny enough government managed to do that, without a massive bureaucracy and change! Simple and cheap is best and 3 Waters will cost the government the elections while clearing the way for Natz to privatise! Similar to when Labour bought in student tertiary fees, Natz then kept it, and bought in student loans.

    Labour have created the system to make water a profit centre, sold offshore and unaffordable just like they have for housing and education while pretending it was for their benefit.

  19. If Labour and Greens were so worried about climate change why do they keep getting awarded fossil status at world climate events and why climate change was not demanded in the free trade agreements as they most important risk factor?

    • Does not seem related to water, but more related to their identity obsession.

      This should be addressed via the treaty claims and science (aka structural racism in the justice system) not some sort of bogus virtue signalling, while dividing the countries social services and assets on racial lines that again are not very easy to ascertain (aka 99.9% Pakeha can identify as Maori, and the treaty was supposed to have it 50:50 – shouldn’t the assets be 50:50 based on both English settler and Maori ancestry – bear in mind land was also confiscated/given from Pakeha settlers for schools etc as well as Maori).

  20. Divide then concur.
    The corporate underworld understand that the planet’s heating up. ( Largely because they caused it.) They also understand that water is a priceless commodity. That, in anybodies language, is $-Ka Ching for them. Not for you, but for them. For fucks sake! Stop being so fucking stupid.
    All they have to do, specifically in AO/NZ, is rub Maori and non Maori up the right way so while we squabble like Starlings in the middle of the road we’ll get run down by Them then they’ll get our water. ( I can’t believe I’m having this experience of writing about the value of water. It’s Mad Max 2.0 isn’t it? )
    Water, per se, has no ownership proviso. Water belongs to all living things. We humans, because of our damnable opposing thumbs have a responsibility to manage it. That. Is. All.
    What’s to be next? The very air we breathe? Has got water in it… so perhaps so.
    What most people are is moronic. I can’t believe some of the things I read here. Deeply fucking dumb shit man. Most of you think we must acquiesce to powerful global corporations when, in reality, we can burn the fuckers down then piss on their ashes and be far, far better off for it.
    Corporations managed by rich morons to appeal to moronic morons must be about the most dangerous thing on Earth.
    If either Maori or non Maori try to sell our water to anyone including corporate interests whether from here or abroad? That’s a call to arms in my opinion.

  21. So, I will give an example so as not to incite the racists. Ukraine is an example: The kiwi subconsciously backs Russia. Similarly, in 1863 Maori were invaded by the British empire through force. Ukraine people and Maori understand the difference between a treaty and an invasion. I would find it difficult for anyone to justify an invasion, oops that historical amnesia.

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