Christopher Luxon – why not a boot camp for tax dodgers?
These are our biggest criminals who steal massive sums from us every day – living parasitic lives and paying buggar all to the Common Good.
We can’t entirely blame rich pricks for the piddling amounts of tax they pay – politicians relying on big corporate donations have seen to it that the unearned incomes and wealth of this elite are barely touched by tax. With their fat wallets and easy access to the corridors of power they have rigged the system so they pay far smaller proportions of their incomes in tax than the low-income parents of young ram raiders.
But still they steal.
Economist Gareth Morgan believes New Zealand could be missing out on up to 25 percent of total income tax because the rich aren’t paying their fair share. Imagine what we could do with an extra $8 billion each year – fix the health system, build thousands of state houses and invest in public transport.
$8 billion is massive.
We need a boot camp for these recidivist, lifelong, tax-dodging bludgers who steal from us every day – daylight robbery in fact. A diet of weetbix and 2-minute noodles for three months would focus their minds on the importance of contributing to their community. Community service would also help – after they have had a cold shower in the morning they can pitch in and help out in rest homes or as assistants to teacher aides.
With ankle bracelets, coarse wool blankets, army discipline and intensive wraparound support some of them might turn their lives around. We won’t know till we give it a go. Come on Chris – surely you are up to the challenge!
The first few batches of these criminals going through boot camp might just provide a windfall of taxation we haven’t seen before. The power of positive example.
But before you establish this boot camp for tax dodgers Mr Luxon you will need to actually spend some money tracking them down. I know you will agree that stealing $8 billion from us every year is a serious criminal situation but to get National Party members onside with this proposal you need to call the criminals out for what they are – fraudsters, bloodsuckers, parasites – you know, the same way your MPs talk about beneficiaries at National Party conferences. Just give Paula Bennett a call for some pointers.
It might make things a bit difficult at your next home barbecue – none of your friends may turn up. But let’s face it Chris – who needs thieves for friends? These people stealing $8 billion from us every year are the really big criminals. They are boils on the backside of our community.
Tackle them full on Chris. Otherwise you risk confirming the old saying that jails are where the big criminals put all the little criminals.
We can’t possibly jail these people, they donate to charities…
No, they lend the money to them, and then get it back through the taxpayer.. In reality, it costs them nothing, but gets them good publicity..
Put both the tax dodgers and ram raiders in boot camps.
This article is a disappointment! Minto, if you are so stressed about $8b, why don’t you speak to your bestie, who is currently in charge? The current party is more in love with tax, spend and waste.
It will be good if Minto critically analysed Luxons proposed policy, and stay on topic, instead of going in tangents.
Minto has consistently criticised Labour around a range of issues including State Housing. How does that make them/her his Bestie.
He hasn’t voted labour for at least 25 years!
Analysing the policy is not hard, it failed last time and cost $418,000 per person.
Look at the underlying issues at the top of the cliff not the bottom.
It feeds Benny’s right wing bias.
We have the left in charge, Labour together with Greens. If they haven’t tackled the $8b in past 5 years, it definitely won’t be the right parties who advocate for lower tax. Hence Minto going on a rant attacking Luxon is pointless.
In terms of failed policy, it is difficult to know if what is being proposed is exactly the same as last time or something different. Until we understand the details, it is difficult to criticize and write it off.
All we know that whatever we are doing today is not working.
Benny please don’t insist on Labour being on the left they are not.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/boot-camps-a-cliche-says-former-national-minister-chester-borrows/V3U2BOK6RNCRVAXVNZMTLO6RRY/
Same as last time, from one of their own.
benny you do know NZers pay some of the lowest tax in the developed world which results in the neo-lib shithole we live in….will an extra 5 quid in your pocket fix infrastructure? or will you personally get y’self down to bunnings buy a spade and sort out the sewers……low tax western economies are the road to alabama.
What I don’t get is National dumped the idea themselves when it didn’t work but then have campaigned on it again. The scheme had high reoffending rates and a relatively high cost. Aren’t National banging on about wasting money? Why don’t you just force offenders into a compulsory apprenticeship rather than lumping them together to get fit. Guess they are against free tertiary education too
They have shown these boot camps don’t work, just as the UK found. Australia proved the removal of gang patches didn’t work either but no let’s do that as well. ZB types will scream ‘we have to do something’. Fair enough, but not wasting money on proven non starters.
yer not wrong wheel but it is raw meat for their mono-browed constituancy..
he’ll pull a yewie on this policy too like every other one he’s put up as ‘leader’
I love it.
The term ” intensive wrap around support” sends a chill of dread down my spine and I’d so love these bastards to have a taste of it.
+100
But tax dodgers are a separate issue; the crux here is trying to get young persons onto a pathway which will lead to them becoming fulfilled, decent sort of adult human beings, and not tax dodgers, exploiters, societal parasites, and certain sorts of politicians.
It’s simple, National see tax dodgers as clever entrepreneurs and money manipulators. Knighthoods are appropriate, not prison or boot camps.
Tax dodgers fund right wing politics, so that is why nothing is done.
Gosh again MHK I thought Labour were the Government or did the tax dodgers change horse at the last 2 elections?
Yep Peter. Sir? Michael Fay comes to mind. A man on public record of stating he was proud of how little tax he had ever paid. Plus a penchant for ripping off small shareholders due to New Zealand’s lax securities laws. He should have been jailed not knighted.
Yes Sylvian, so many in that group of millionaires I would like to see in jail, along with their political enablers.
would that entail charities such as Tainui Inc which has made a huge profit but is tax exempt as is say Santiarium or any of the churches in this country, or just for people whom you not like?
But honestly, does anyone have an idea what to do with 11 year olds who steal cars, drive them into shops, and sooner or later will end up killing someone whose only fault was to be at the wrong time in the wrong shop?
Anyone?
How bout you Mr. Minto?
Oh and ankle bracelets is no longer something of stigma, but rather a sign of accomplishment, after all a 4 time rapist got the grand old sentence of 9 month home D.
Coarse blankets? What next, may i have another bowl of water soup? Which century do you actually live in Mr. Minto? 1840? Are you a contemporary of Mr. Dickens?
What should be done with these kids, because we know full well what is gonna happen to these kids once they grow into adulthood.
Is the ‘left’ now so devoid of ideas, so scared of being seen as harsh, that they really are not going to do anything to keep the public safe? And if that is the case, why would those that have suffered at the hands of the little wee angels not vote for any party that is at least paying lipservice to the unjustice?
Really, What the fuck has happened to the left?
Deal with the issues at the top of the cliff, not the bottom.
Fabulous RB.
The likes of Mr. Minto relish living in the past as they have nothing current to offer.
What’s happened to the Left they’ve been hijacked by the Ardern LINO Government.
Ramraids, bashings, theft, n shit, nothing can be done about it. Vote Left, we will not do anything about nothing cause we are full of kindness.
We will focus on why these things happen bratwurst. We will see that everyone is in ‘proper’ employment with a clear view to a future fulfilled life.
This sort of punish, punish punish is foolish it won’t make any difference. And I see the last time they did it, it cost $416,000 for each person that went through a boot camp. Sound like money well spent?
When I say Left I don’t mean the Labour party!
What does it cost to do fuck all as the Left and Labour / Green advocate for? Put a dollar sign to it please. Start with the family of the Dairy owner who has been robbed several times. Or is that a cost you are willing to bare cause they are actually law abiding citizens that Labour / Green and the lefty that enable that ‘do nothing approach’ don’t give a fuck about?
RB is the wealthy tax dodging fraudster a law abiding citizen ??
‘We ourselves proved it didn’t work but hey vote right because parking the ambulance well away from the base of the cliff is our thing”
One day one of these kids are going to kill someone, by accident or by planning. How to prevent that from happening? Any ideas on the left?
Well I would suggest making them faster and stronger won’t change that.
So the left answer is to let them go obese and do fuck all. Your kindness is showing and your absolute lack of care.
That’s all National know, put a band aid on the effect and ignore the cause.
What is the left doing?
Not implementing policies that National proved didn’t work. Your argument makes no sense. Spend 25mil on a non-solution is not “doing” anything either
Doesn’t matter sausage , the story’s about National.
Gosh and I thought Labour were the Government?
Am I on the wrong horse?
Yes I think the Health System in NZ is in a catastrophic position because the best Labour can do is band aid.
Because it has been underfunded by the two main politicians for over 30 years by $30 billion. Straight from Phil Bagshaw who set up the charity hospital (along with Sue his wife) here in Otautahi. I would believe him before I believed any politician.
Reactionary Bratwurst Persecuting the hapless Luxon will not make Jacinda and the Greens any more palatable than they now are. Ain’t gonna work.
not sure what you are saying there. Anyone who is driving a stolen car into a shop is not hapless but a criminal.
Reactionary Bratwurst. I said, “ persecuting the hapless Luxon,” not “persecuting hapless criminals” Ok ? Nothing about the criminals being hapless. Dumping on Luxon unrealistically like this re tax evaders won’t make Jacinda and co look any better; making Luxon appear a worse alternative to Ardern to try to stop her flock straying away and her seem the lesser of two evils, might be occurring, but it’s pretty low level politicking.
The biggest source of untaxed wealth is the domestic home. Vastly greater in scale than other asset classes’ capital gains, and it distorts the rest of the economy and our society.
Or we could tax inheritances (using the personal income tax rates) to stop intergenerational inequalities being passed on.
It is really easy in politics to say the problem is ‘those people who are not like me, those ones over there’. The real problem is everyone wants someone else to pay more taxes.
Why not a bloody uprising against the people farmers, foreign and local? *crickets chirping*
Over75 tax havens in the world,most run by the West…..cui bono?
Yes agreed lots of them hiding fortures from the tax man. These people don’t give a hoot about the society they live in.
Oh really I thought the Left had a mortgage over tax havens Blazer?
So Putins vast fortune is a fallacy not to mention every other left leaning country in the world?
As all the Labour supporters are condemning the ideas put forward by Luxon can you please spare some time to explain how well they are dealing with the current young offenders.
I agree with JM that tax dodgers need to be deal with as well but he needs to take note that most of the dodging is done legally by accountants following the letter of the law set down by parliment. Both sides set this rules so it is in their hands to fix the problem. The charity status of many churches is the first port of call .
The current young offenders grew up under a National ACT, Maori and United Future government. This same policy was used back then.and it failed.
Why the attack on left supporters for pointing out the obvious. Perhaps National supporters, instead of being so tribal point out Nationals failures and ask Luxon to come up with policy to attack the root cause, society failures.
11 years olds were six years when National left he office.
So 6 years under National right? The most important first years of ones life.
Thank you for the confirmation of my post and Martyn’s previous column.
I think you’ve been scratched with that inane comment Horse.
Trevor he is quite an intelligent man so of course he knows that much of it is legal. Don’t we all want them to tighten the rules so that this is no longer possible. And keep tightening them everytime they find a loophole.
labour are not dealing with the issue BUT that doesn’t mean the nats are automatically right now does it trevor? it just means there is another failed option on the table.
Actually Trevor it’s starting to slow down, but of course as usual it doesn’t fit your right wing narrative. If Luxon proposed to hang the children upside down from mount cook for 6 months you’d agree with him. Unfortunately this is the thin end of the wedge , look out for more draconian policies that appeal to the Trevor’s of this world .
It all boils down to those donations, they call it lobbying while we call it bribery, its happening every meeting a politician has with the outside world, constantly after donations with strings attached.
The rich get whatever they want while the rest of us get treated poorly.
Im at the point I just dont see a point in voting I mean sure I could vote Labour to keep National out but lately even Labour has done more for rich people than the poor.
We’re just as corrupt as those banana republics we look down on and there is no way to change it as its the politicians themselves that write the laws they are governed by. And therein lies the problem.
If only we were more like the CCP eh Mark.
It’s not just “Mark”… he has a few other pseudonyms on here too… must be boring for Jian Yang now that he’s out of parliament, eh 😉
For God’s sake! Don’t people realise that the ‘Boot Camp’ idea is not about solving crime?
It is because National party and ACT supporters get sexually aroused when they hear the words ‘tough on crime’ and ‘harsh punishment for young people’. Look for the sudden bulge in Chris Luxon’s pants when he mentions it.
“Targeting Maori and Pasifka youth’ equals massive right wing orgasms
It’s kind of astonishing to hear someone come out with this type of stuff in 2022. Are voters really that stupid and easy to manipulate? The only thing that can save us from this dribble is young voters. There will be more of them soon than the reactionary talk radio audience members that underpin NActionals political strategy and voter base. Perhaps an uptick in COVID across this population voters will also help to reduce the electoral impact.
My brother got sent to a boot camp (in NZ) and got abused and got a big pay out from our government. Another backward idea from a party that keeps on doing u turns. And why would our military want to babysit and stand over bad kids when they didn’t want to babysit covid patients, they didn’t join the forces to do that kind of work.
Sorry to hear about your brother covid is pa.
Good points and maybe they need to do what they can to ensure that there is no abuse (independent monitoring etc) and have someone other than the army run this (as yes this is not the role of the military – maybe ex-military engaged as contractors)?
I know James the best idea don’t lets have this policy at all then children like covid’s brother will not be put at risk
Let’s face it – tax dodgers affect society indirectly, but violent juvenile crime and ramraiders affect communities, people, jobs and properties directly.
” These are our biggest criminals who steal massive sums from us every day – living parasitic lives and paying buggar all to the Common Good.”
Dead right.
@ T
“Let’s face it” Are you really a simplistic idiot? Serious question. Is there finally something recognisably more shallow than a bird bath and that is your thinking.
Disagree completely on the indirect bit. Direct effects on education, health etc etc etc etc due to lack of funding.
Ramraiders are just more obvious and actually have considerable less affect on our tax take hence the cost to society is far less.
Biggest problem with Luxons boot camp is, you’ve got to catch them first.
That means a huge cost blowout because he will need to find hundreds of extra police in addition to whatever they have allowed now.
Also unless they reorganize the courts drastically ( more funding) these ram raiders will be too old by the time they are convicted.
From what I read catching them is no problem as the police seem to know who many of the trouble makers are already . You are right in mentioning that there is a gap in the next step after they are caight with probation reports then sentencing and then finding a suitable place for them. Solving the youth problem must be a complete package.
Trevor, i am sure the 3 page boot camp policy document covers these problems in depth
Let’s not forget Nationals great immigration ponzi scheme, introducing 100’s of thousands whilst adding no extra infrastructure, police, nurses, teachers etc and now laying the total blame at Labours feet.
The parents were usless under National and continue to be usless under Labour.
Actually Thomas you answered your own question.
Violent juvenile crime comes from a society that has been indirectly affected by tax dodgers, i.e. not enough tax dollars to go around for education, training etc.
Thomas do you mean health, education,policing house building , social welfare is not affected by tax dodgers
The LINO government has failed to address this issue and is as much to blame for allowing the red necks some space in the vacuous publics headspace to breathe life into them hill billies with what we all know is just another dog whistle to them all.
So I guess at the drop of the next poll, they might get another 1 or 2 percent in that poll.
There is now a ‘career’ path for those kids now if it gets off the ground where all the brown kids upon graduation day will be automatically enlisted in the NZ Army and shipped off to the ‘UK’ for ‘Training’. And then resign and then find themselves in the Ukraine on the front line as cannon fodder!
Whereas the not so brown skinned will get the full rehabilitation version of the reprogramming program.
And what about fraudster and white collar crims Thomas
Chris together with tough love we can recover the jewels from these tax evaders.
Outward Bound and similar types of programs can be of value and could be used to turn people’s lives around, but a lot of the good work gets undone if you just dump the young person back in the hole where you found them. If the “boot camps” taught useful life skills and could lead in to education or employment, then they might have value but if it is just designed as a brutal punishment, then it is a waste of time.
Throwing young people on the scrap heap, will cost the country significantly in the future.
RNZ, News Talk ZB and TVNZ. The three riders of the apocalyptic donkey race to the bottom of the shit bucket.
There they are, prepared to get to the bottom of it to defy logic and expectation to find nothing to see there.
Funny that. Anyone would think that the Gangsta Klan media we think of as our political army of truth-tellers, integrity and genuine intentions are there for us because there they are! The MSM Truth Tellers shoving their electro-dildos up Baldylocks when really, we know, don’t we, that they’re winning and we’re all fucked.
Our AO/NZ has only one politic. It’s the politics of capitalist fascism aka neoliberalism. There’s only one thing to say, and they say it. There’s only one course of action and they’re taking it. There’s only one direction and they’re on it and that’s for them to have us in often pointless occupation to harvest us of our money for their private and personal wealth creation. The rest of us can either go to prison, go to Hell or go to our graves.
rnz. Is that irony?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/478971/employers-told-to-pinch-a-cobber-s-idea-and-hire-some-grey-power
Well said John,
Bootcamps, “tough on Crime” and “[Prison] relieves us of the responsibility of seriously engaging with the problems of our society, especially those produced by racism and, increasingly, global capitalism.” Angela Davis
Great quote!
I am not sure why the hell we are comparing an actual crime, as in destroying someone’s property and theft, to the tax issue? Are we talking about tax avoidance or tax evasion? Bleat all you like; tax avoidance is not the same as evasion. Bratwurst mentioned Sanitarium and Tainui as being tax exempt. Hello! Thats not against the law. Change the tax law by all means but be clear what you mean in by dodging. Morality doesn’t come into it. Close the bloody loopholes
Well said .
Look at the cost of shelter and start there – fuckin parasites alright.
Do the dis-enfranchised just eviscerate themselves in the streets? or raise a middle finger and become outlaws? It won’t stop until the mis-use of capital is thrown to the curb along with avarice and greed.
John does not seem to be taking into account that many “tax dodgers” would be quite elderly. In their case boot camps would not be appropriate.
Slipper and incontinence pant camps then.
oh mikesh I dunno some of our aged care facilities are a bit grim….microwaved instand meals and all day in front of the idiot box sounds harsh to me.
Lets face it with National and its current leader is that whilst he resorts to Flip-Flop statements and policies he may as well be holding a bed leg and beating the crap out of others to prove a point that he is boss and no-one should ever contradict him or alter his statements.
I truly do pity the Wannabe National MP for Hamilton West because he(the Wannabe MP)has to contend with an imbecile as a leader whereas I think he has better judgment and intelligence than Luxon can ever achieve.
And then he wakes up the next morning and realises what a dedicated follower of contradiction he truly is.
Sadly for National is by some weird reason of logic I am sure none of us can quite figure out is they regurgitate like a Muldoon Infused Booze Quest the same failed policies of the past but with supposedly inspirational new Mantra meanings to them.
It’s much like National still beating the way out-dated NZ National Party Blame-Game Drum that should as in the case of real adults be consigned to the past like all the failed policies National should have done over the years.
But NO. National have wallowed into the realms of negativity and as a result have now rendered themselves incapable of consigning their Blame Game Drum to the past let alone them admitting they made mistakes whilst in government.
To National to admit they made mistakes whilst in government is like me holding my out stretched hand out to the wind and demand it stop blowing.
I do get the impression that white collar crims on fraud counts do get a lighter deal when it comes to having clever(and expensive) lawyers than those beneficiary’s that commit benefit crime.
I used to work for WINZ and now over the years have noticed how hard National comes down on beneficiaries whilst casting a blind eye to some of their even former National MPs that were bought before the courts for fraud and of course naturally for National GREED
The article you referenced in The Standard was all over the place.
> You referred to ‘tax dodgers’ in your headline
> The Standard article referred to ‘tax evasion’
> But Gareth Morgan talked of ‘tax avoidance’
Just to be clear, tax evasion is a criminal act, and I doubt any of the rich list are engaged in it because they’re too visible. Tax evasion in NZ is mostly small business operators doing ‘cashies’ thus evading both income tax and GST.
Tax avoidance is the perfectly legal practice of structuring your income to minimize tax. I presume we all do this to some extent, unless you good folk send cheques to Grant Robinson as an act of charity.
Meanwhile, thanks to inflation and the resultant bracket creep, the Treasury is overflowing with revenue, a lot of which is being misspent by the government. e.g. 370 million spent on the amalgamation of RNZ and TVNZ, when we aren’t paying nurses enough to retain them.
Come on Andrew. Minto has been around long enough to know that there are two strands to the tax issue and that some of it is legal because the government won’t change the loop holes.
And the idea that the billions come from cash jobs that tradies and others do is pretty ridiculous.
Of course there will be high profile wealthy people who are ripping off the system.
chain gangs would help solve agricultural labour shortages is that the actual aim of locking up more young fit men? a drift toward a US style prison industrial complex.
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