The Prime Minister during the launch of the SIS woke nark project today has made it very clear that she supports Minister Allan’s political kamikaze drive to not only push through Hate Speech Laws, but she also wants specific Hate Speech laws to protect religion???
“We may not have everyone but I would like to see general support,” she said.
“There should be good support for saying, actually, we should not experience hate speech and incitement based on your religion.
“Where there were issues last time this was because there were other amendments around some of the thresholds and language that caused some concern.”
RELIGION!
Here is the baseline proposal for what would be considered religious hate speech using what was put up previously by the Government…
‘the incitement of disharmony against religion, based on an intent to stir up, maintain or normalise hatred, through threatening, abusive or insulting communications’.
…Comrades – if NZ passes religious hate speech laws, I’m afraid I will have no choice but to immediately break that law for the sake of our Democracy!
Remember, this new religious hate speech law will specifically target ‘hate’ towards religious beliefs???
But many religious beliefs are ridiculous. Under this law, ‘The Life of Brian’ would be considered hate speech…
From the archive, 30 August 1979: Nothing funny about Life of Brian’s Jesus joke
The Catholic archdiocese has called Life of Brian a “blasphemy”, adding that it was a “crime against religion which holds the person of Christ up to comic ridicule.”
The Jewish groups are equally damning. They regard the film as “grieviously insultlng,” and have described it as “a vicious attack on Judaism and the Bible, and a cruel mockery of Christian religious feelings as well.”
…I philosophically hate religion for many, many, many fucking good reasons, but because NZ is a liberal progressive democracy, I tolerate religion.
I tolerate Scientology, I tolerate the Exclusive Brethren & I tolerate those who believe in a magical invisible flying wizard for all their personal choices!
I also tolerate that they don’t pay tax – BUT I SURE AS FUCK refuse point blank to fear them!
This is a liberal progressive SECULAR Democracy, if you want to believe in crazy myths and crazy invisible magical flying beings, that is your total right to, but equally, it’s my right to mock those beliefs when they collide with my individual rights.
Blasphemy laws and gender identity hate speech isn’t a solution to a cascade intelligence failure by the entire NZ Intelligence agencies that led to a white supremacists terror attack.
We lose free speech to criticise religion? How the hell is that anything other than a victory for the Christchurch Terrorist?
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Agree 100% MB.
It’s another move by the Left to have control.
It’s silly but even worse dangerous.
The only way to do it is to start your own religion and force the zealots to take you silly hat as seriously as theirs.
They did start their own religion – climate change, Covid vaccination, LGBTQIA+. not allowed to ask any questions.
“…based on an intent to stir up, maintain or normalise hatred, through threatening, abusive or insulting communications.”
Well, arguments from the Woke-minded about ‘intent’ are pretty hard to defend yourself against because the Woke think they can perceive other peoples’ minds and detect racism and hostility there, and ‘insulting’ is right next door to making fun of.
So goodbye to mocking the religious.
Also, I can’t wait until someone from the Scientology Church argues they are the target of hate speech….
Martyn if you’re serious about getting arrested for hate speech, you know WHICH religion you will have to insult. Say whatever you like about Catholics or Anglicans or Press-buttons or Brian Tamaki’s “church” – that won’t get you arrested.
True Pope, and therein lies the insidiousness of these laws. They will be used to specifically target any individual or group the powers of the day dont want to see.
What – the Hindustans? Wait – that’s a car…..
Pope Punctilious 11. The Quakers are kind peace loving folk. Government doesn’t need to feel obliged to meddle with them but I should think that they’ll take Martyn’s insults in their stride and they will visit him in prison with soft tissues and mittens and muffins and pottles of honey.
wow pope are the rastas really that touchy….you were alluding to rastas I take it.
I hear ya Pope and yup we will have to be very careful about what we say about the Taliban.
james is that the christian taliban or the muslim one….cos we haven’t heard from the muslim one recently but the christian jihadists have taken up hammers and think it’s ok to brain victims in their 80s….also mass shootings tend to be a white fundie jihadist hobby…juz askin man, juz askin.
Agree 100% MB.
It’s another move by the Left to have control.
It’s silly but even worse dangerous.
I was recently reading about the British hate speech laws and noticed that many of the cases concerning religious protest action were discharged without conviction. I think the judiciary were being politically dainty, knowing that religions are still powerful and don’t want to upset them too much.
All we need is for everyone to treat all other people, animals and the environment with respect. This should be taught in school. After the new right wing coalition in 2023 cancels all the waiata, kapa haka, te reo and matauranga Maori in schools we could introduce Respect for Other People courses. And have more time for reading, writing and arithmetic. I’m dreaming.
Ahhh perhaps the dozen or so posts you have made attacking Luxon, not for his policy or anything political, but his religion.
Well let’s see how you fare and how much your fine will be….but as previously mentioned above, it’s only Islam that will garner the interest of the law as hate speech, all others will be left alone and a free for all mocking and disparaging will be allowed (I’m not religious, just stating the obvious)
Sighhh!
Of course this law will only be implemented when critical of Islam. Remember that Muslims regularly preach and advocate to worshippers in the Mosques “death to unbelievers” (as is clearly described in the Quran), but I’m 99% sure they will not be prosecuted for their “hate speech”. I wonder if political commentary will also be part of the new legislation.
I personally find it appalling that me ridiculing Christians and Jews could be criminal.
However any ridicule of Islam must be met with condemnation and a heavy jail sentence if not the death penalty.
No right thinking woke ideology could think otherwise.
I’m concerned about the current criticism of Iran, this is nothing but hatred towards islamic belief and cannot be tolerated.
Boris, you’ll still be able to ridicule Christians and Jews. But I can guarantee you won’t be able to mock Islam.
Mart, if this legislation goes through you may need to get another career as the TDB will ultimately be so sanitised that no-one will bother. In fact, now that you have moved into more politically centre territory, you will get it from both sides as you will never be in accord with either main party.
But hang on, I have to go and take my meds before I get too hysterical about this dystopian new world I see coming to pass.
Bomber, you do have the right NOT to vote for Jacinda or her enablers, the Greens.
I wonder how the law will identify religion or a religion; and if the difference between “ridicule” and “hate” will be specified.
A very good question Peter Kelly. Will satire become a target of this law?
Pope Punctilious 11. If William Shakespeare incurred the wrath of His Majesty’s public servants, nobody and nothing is safe any more. Lock up your books.
Definitely as will comedy which has already been a target of the woke.
Vote for dopey people get dopey legislation.
That’s what I’m wondering. As a lifelong atheist with friends and former colleagues who ascribe to various religious beliefs, I wonder if we can make a distinction between disbelief, gentle mockery, and hate, along a continuum. We must also reserve the right to call out fundamentalist cults such as the Taliban, Brian Tamaki, and Gloriavale.
tip toeing into an authoritarian dystopia one new law at a time
death by one thousand cuts or boiling the frog? either way this BS needs to be rejected outright
I want to know what happens when one’s religious beliefs are used to criticise the beliefs of another religion?
The State will come down on the side of the ones they dont like. Unless there is an ombudsman for such things, in which case, they’d spend millions looking into it and 18 months to then recommend the State pull it’s horns in.
This is what is so stupid about identity politics. The Jews, the Muslims and the Christians all have the same aversions to homosexuality because they all derive from original texts shared between all 3 religions.
But in this country, only one of those 3 religions will be slapped for publicising their views on it. So its not about religion or even the particularly, the view within the religion. It is the identity that will get you targeted.
Still want to vote Labour + The Greens + Maori Party into power so we can have WEF-inspired fascism?
Remember it is the likes of Kate Hannah and Siousxie Willes that will be determining the criminology threshold.
Buckle up folks because it appears Te Reo doesn’t give 2 fucks but sure as hell both Seymour and Peters will on the campaign trail.
Is the Church of the Flying Spaghetti monster included? This law will put me right off meatballs and noodles and hurt my feelings. What of Satanists and Jedi, hate speech laws could be hateful.
Liberal ideas buffer conflict and build a tolerant society, illiberal ideas not so.
If one is looking to prevent “incitement of disharmony” one would be hard pressed for a more oxymoronic approach than this. Woke politics is fighting against the society it is ushering in.
It would also be a civic duty to find every trivial act that is criminalised by this law especially if ‘committed’ by an MP who votes in favour of this. 2022 woke-Labour = 1970s religious conservatives proving the horseshoe theory of politics.
“Woke politics is fighting against the society it is ushering in. ”
Such enviable clarity.
She _really_ loves ACT, huh?
I agree with you, Martyn. I do believe that you should be able, and should always be able, to retain your freedom of speech and of self-expression which includes light mockery of other people’s beliefs of you so choose, providing that this behaviour doesn’t infringe on the rights of these people.
Nice article. Well done.
At least getting arrested for drawing cartoons of the “religion of peace”, would be better than the usually consequence of being brutally stabbed to death by a raving maniac adherent of the aforementioned “religion of peace “.
O Unbelievers, O Infidels. There is only one religion she wants protected.
So is saying I simply do not believe that there is an all powerful being that listens to you, expects your devotion, and then spends your time on this earth testing your belief by allowing despicable treatment of loads of people on the planet just to mess with your conviction (all of which by the way has been told by the writings of mere mortals not actual evidence) hate speech? If so why?
Because to protect the religion of peace from critique she has to (reluctantly) protect all religions
Burn them darn witches on the market place for public amusement. And the people were afraid of the witches, but not of the people burning them.
Does she want to protect the religion that flies planes into buildings?
Bomb the back to the stone age? … Starve them by the millions? ,,, God bless America
Yeah so I think that applies mostly to Russia and other middle eastern despots.
Iraq? Afghnistan? Iran? Cuba? Venezuela? Dude, the world existed before Feb 2022.
Zelda,
Which religion flies planes into buildings?
@Zelda I’m pretty sure that was ‘people’ at the controls. Sure a kind of wahhabist zeal, saudi money, US foreign policy blowback etc etc are all be in the mix but if you’re going to generalise and totalise then you’re just a mirror image of woke ideologues.
ssshhhhh tui. zeldas mob are tight with the saudis
That’s a bit like saying every catholic is responsible for massive over population in some countries due to their churches stance on contraception or every catholic preys on children. In other words completely off the mark.
Jesus Christ! What a cross burning hypocrisy. God almighty. How in the name of God did we get into such a cluster fuck of a mess of biblical proportions. What, in the name of Jesus, next? Bible bashing Christians brawling with Cloth Head muslims while Jews take bets on the outcome? Probably.
Did your keyboard break? 😉
Nah, that will be ok, just don’t insist that men can’t give birth. Now that is heresy worth the Spanish Inquisition.
I nearly forgot. A friend waits three hours for a Dr and an xray for a suspected broken ankle while we have nine tax sheltered multi billionaires in an agrarian economy… Is God bothering going to be the latest abortion / race / ethnicity addition to the smoke – screen deflection strategy line up of the greedy , neoliberal, market forces rule, scammers and con artists we less than fondly think of as OUR way more than well paid politicians?
I think the collective ‘we’ really need to ignore our petty differences for awhile and focus on our politicians. I don’t think our politicians have done, or are doing, their fucking jobs.
Our politicians are to blame actually. Not the billionaires, not the millionaires, not you, not me. Not even the foreign owned banks either. It’s our useless fucking politicians. All of them. Bastards!
All our strife starts and finishes with them. The Natzo’s, ACT, useless fucking labour, the pointless green party. The Maori Party. Nice salary plus expenses while whanau go hungry in a country that produces foods aye boys? Clearly, our politicians are bent as fuck. We need a royal commission of inquiry. I’m going to fucking ask for one. I’ll keep you posted. Don’t wait up.
Well if Jesus can wait a few days to get some nails removed from his body, then I’m sure your friend can wait 3 hours for a Dr and xray for Christ’s sakes!
How does LOB stir up hatred though? Surely ridicule, not hatred.
Hang on. what the fuck is “insulting communications”?
billid “ Insulting communications “ Letters from my mother-law ? Recycled Christmas cards? Kiddies in backpacks peeing on daddy ? Rates bills ? Putting buttons in the church collection ? Almost everything from WINZ ?
That is!
‘your phone is shit and your e-mail is fucked’ that kinda thing billid
“you’ll know it when you see it”.
J. A.
Great leader, thinker, and highly experienced manager of huge and complex organisations.
It doesn’t really matter how loosely that is defined though does it? It still has to cause ‘hatred’. If I say “all Christians are ugly”, does that stir up ‘hatred’? No NZ court would convict someone on that basis.
that insult really hurt my feelings. Why are you being so hateful and stirring up hate? I’m taking you to the hate speech tribunal where you will lose your job and be ostracized by society – lol – that’ll be doing me a favour.
If a religious group stirs up “hate” against an atheist or a believer in another fairy tale will that qualify?
It’s up to all of us,by way of protest,to break the hate speech law.
With rugby being New Zealand’s long established religion, it’s pretty clear that the PM doesn’t want anyone being mean to the All Blacks. Helen had a thing about the All Blacks too, and John Key used to hang around their dressing room hoping someone would take a photo of him with them.
Key’s obsession with hanging about in a room with naked young men seemed a little deviant.
Though in fairness, Key thought HE was God.
“I tolerate Scientology, I tolerate the Exclusive Brethren & I tolerate those who believe in a magical invisible flying wizard for all their personal choices!”
I’ve even been known to vote for recovering Morons and lapsed Mikky Doolans but if I wanted to have a polity based on religion, I’d move to the Muddle East
Fun fact. One of the woman in LOB – Brian’s Mum I think? – became mayor of some small English town back in the early 2000’s, and found out that there was still some bylaw on the books banning LOB from being played in the town’s public spaces, or even the local theatre.
How about this: create a religion that specifically says that Trans will go to hell and are the devil incarnate on earth and God will smite them down.
Promulgate those believes and watch the shit fly.
To late! Destiny Church already has that in place.
Why make it specific to Trans.?
The desert religions already have similar directives against practitioners of other types sexual orientation, apostasy, atheism, adultery etc.
If enacted, the new laws should be applied existing religious hate dogma.
‘the incitement of disharmony against humanity, based on an intent to stir up, maintain or normalise hatred, through threatening, abusive or insulting communications’.
Based on the humans (whatever race, sex, gender ID, political creed, marital status, employment status) opinion about anything, sacred or profane.
Where do people get off claiming that “their God” is “our God” and loves them, but not the rest of humanity.
Will the bible and koran get exemptions for the outright hatred and the calls for violence towards certain groups that each contains?
I’m very curious to see what sort of contortions of logic are going to be used to get around this.
it is a sin to NOT use your god given brain when blindly following any religion. All religions are man made, and most religions create divisions and hatred for others. Religions should be respectfully critiqued to ensure it has strong, logical philosophy to back itself.
Never keen on dogmas.
Ideas pushed into people uninterested in ideas –just dissatisfied in some way — by the unscrupulous powerful.
Peter Theil, noxious idiot, my local, thankfully taking off for Malta. The rich are so laughable. You can be popular by splicing these cwnts. Vital, mate.
Talking to old client bout how terrible internet disinformation was while the radio blared Sean whatshisname. All the folks who’ve never seen an idea in their life will come round grabbing — for the least scrupulous. Ninety percent just respond to present facts.
So the Left has to lead for the people. Versus these Rogernome/ Blairite crapos. There is nothing behind these people. I remember an article by Chris bout this.
Too shorthand, Jim.
theil is an anti democratic subversive take away his passport and fly him out..an ‘undesirable alien’ if ever there was one.
Um, we might have work out what law he’s broken first.
But if we’re going to arbitrarily expel people deemed “undesirable aliens or “anti-democratic subversive”, I might want to add Siouxsie Wiles to the list (I do hope I’ve spelt if her name right).
being in possession of the name theil with the intent to oligarch in a religious theocracy does it for me.
With the likelihood that LINO will pass this bs into law. They’ll then get booted out of government along with 3 Waters and their mental health provider, the gweens in 2023 along with the maori Stasi party.
Then the problem will be, if the Nats & Act win?? We’ll get thrown back into the olden days of the GFC era of Austerity for the majority and the usual bs neoliberalism.
When will NZ’ders ever learn?
My first point of order following the implementation of hurt speech policy is to say politicians are second class citizens.
Ethan, you’re a model of restraint and understatement. I wouldn’t be nearly as gentle with our House of Unrepresentatives.
Animal god,hammers and nails now,.
It wasnt that long ago right wing religion – Family First New Zealand was spreading hate speech and misinformation about cannabis but that seemed acceptable by Labour who let it continue unabated, even though the information went totally against what a review our own scientists conducted.
So its ok for religion to spread hate speech but its not ok for us to hate religion.